“I wish I knew how to quit you,” is not only how Reva and Josh felt many a time during their topsy-turvy romantic journey, but also how many fans feel about Guiding Light’s No. 1 super-couple — especially now that the oldest show in TV history has been cancelled.
 |
But Reva and Josh — and Kim and Robert’s — magic still lives on.
Which is why, six months after Reva and Josh rode off into the sunset in a vintage green pickup truck on Guiding Light’s final episode, fans are still clamouring for a Robert Newman and Kim Zimmer reunion.
And thanks to the successful So Long Springfield events and the third annual Soap Cruise, daytime’s former king and queen, Newman and Zimmer, have kept Bud and the Slut of Springfield’s enduring love affair alive for many lucky fans. |
TV Guide Canada recently sat down with the insanely talented and beautiful super-couple to discuss their mourning process,
As The World Turns’s cancellation, their future career plans, how effortless their chemistry really is, and whether or not Reva and Josh should have reunited in
GL’s historic final scene.
|
TVGuide.ca: Whew. Well, we’ve just left the Florida Keys — thankfully we made it out alive before Kim drove off a bridge screaming, “I’m coming, Bud!”
Robert Newman: [Joking] That Reva is one drama queen, isn’t she? Whew! [Laughs] God, that was forever ago.
Kim Zimmer: 1990 to be exact. That’s when I first left the show.
RN: Today, exotic location shoots are such a thing of the past. I remember when we were taping in Puerto Rico, which dubbed for San Cristobel, I was hanging out with the CBS/P&G money/businessmen who said that was going to be our last location shoot. They argued location shoots didn’t attract any new viewers.
KZ: Also, at that time, cable networks were enjoying a lot of success with their fledgling travel shows, so soaps-on-location lost its appeal and niche very quickly. |
 |
TVG: It’s been almost half a year since GL was extinguished from the airwaves. Since you’ve been hosting myriad of So Long Springfield fan events, where you still play Reva and Josh on stage, have you been able to mourn the show’s death yet?KZ: These So Long Springfield events have been a blessing because we’ve been allowed to personally say goodbye to our fans. In a way, [soap event producer] Mike Gold has kept Reva and Josh alive. But to answer your question, I am ready to put
GL to bed. At this point, we’ve said all our goodbyes. Now I’m waiting for the phone to ring. I’m ready to embark on the next chapter of my life and career. The only problem with these reunion events is all our old feelings return, which can stunt and delay our mourning process a bit. However, it’s been great for me because I’m writing my autobiography. Fans will come up to me and remind me of certain moments I had forgotten about, so it’s been beneficial for my memoirs.
I was recently approached by another show to resurrect Reva, but I declined the offer. I’d love to play Reva again, but only in Springfield. Though my husband did ask me, “Are you really sure you want to turn down this offer, Kim [laughs]?”
RN: I think I’ve already completed the mourning process. Sure, I miss the actors, crew, and fans, but luckily, through these fan events, I’m still able to stay in direct contact with all of them. As for mourning Josh and the show, I have come to terms with the loss. As GL was fading, I was in a different place than my co-stars because I was starring in a musical, Sessions. After we taped GL’s last show, I still had a job to go to the next day.
TVG: From your vantage point, which stage in the mourning process are the fans at?
RN: Well, that’s what’s great about Mike Gold’s fan events — we’re able to help the fans through their mourning process. At this point, the fans are passed the denial stage. That went on for a while. A lot of our fans were convinced that GL would be picked up by another network. Even after the show stopped airing! But now they’re over that hump.
KZ: I was hosting a cancer event around the time CBS announced GL’s cancellation in April, and one of our fans was just a mess. She was shaking, asking, “What am I going to do with this hour in my day? GL’s timeslot was the hour I looked most forward during the day.” Looking at her son, I just simply told her, “You’ll spend that hour with your beautiful son.” Almost a year later, on this very cruise, she reported that she was finally able to say goodbye to the show in her heart.
RN: Another one of our diehard fans, Eileen Hargis, told me, “If you guys ever doubted for a minute that Reva and Josh — and Kim and Robert —haven’t touched our lives in such a profound manner, I hope now you understand the impact you’ve had on our lives.” So that kind of feedback has been very powerful, too. The So Long Springfield events have made Kim and I realize how much context and colour we brought to these characters because for the majority of our time on GL, we were stuck in the studio all day. It’s easy to forget there are millions of viewers out there watching each day because when you’re on the set, your crew and co-stars become your audience. Our fans really feel connected to us, so I have to say, for Kim and I, it’s been an honour and privilege to be in their homes every day — and now connect with them face-to-face.
TVG: Has GL’s cancellation given you a newfound respect and appreciation for your legacy? Did you realize that Reva and Josh transcended the medium?
KZ: I’ve always felt and known how much they love us — especially when you see six generations of women standing in front of you. And that’s due to the show’s longevity. That’s why I feel like we, as actors, do owe these people an in-person, face-to-face goodbye for decades and decades of loyalty. When you hear Eileen saying how much we’ve touched her life in such a profound way, it’s just a reaffirmation of our connection with the fans. That’s what’s unique about soaps — we’re in these people’s homes for one hour each day, 52 weeks a year, 200-something days a year, for 25 years!
RN: Another thing that has changed since the show went off the air is, back then, we’d spend or waste all this time either arguing or complaining along with the fans about certain storylines or moments — some which hadn’t even aired yet!
KZ: Thanks to the soap magazines revealing story preview and spoilers weeks in advance! [laughs]
RN: And the Internet spoilers, yes. Now that the show is cancelled, we’re just looking back at the bigger picture of Josh and Reva — and their remarkable love story. Collectively, we’re united in a way we could never be before.
TVG: Reva and Josh remain my favourite soap opera love story. It was very Tennessee Williams …
RN: Yeah, Cat On A Hot Tin Roof reminded us of Reva and Josh a lot.
TVG: Reva and Josh were too damaged and stubborn to make their unconditional, all-consuming love for one another work. Would you agree with the assertion that Reva and Josh systemically sabotaged their relationship over and over again because of their own personal psychological issues?
KZ: Yep, I would agree with that. And Pam Long [GL’s former head writer who created Reva] knew that from the start. Josh and Reva were toxic together because their love forced them to deal with their inner demons.
 |
TVG: [Half-seriously] Somewhere out there in soap land, I’m sure Reva and Josh have broken up already! On the soap cruise, you danced to Reva and Josh’s wedding theme song, “How Could I Ever Love You More,” and your chemistry remains as palpable and infectious as the first day we met Jeva. I had already mourned the loss of GL a long time before it left the airwaves, but I have to admit, seeing you guys dance one last time to your theme song and re-enact your final scene with humour — and a few line revisions — provided me with some much-needed closure. Even non-GL fans were emotional and teary-eyed!
RN: That was the first time we’ve danced together to that song. At the So Long Springfield events, we do dance together but not to that song. So, yes, that was a special moment for us. That song connects in such a nostalgic, magical way — and to have the original composer and singer perform it for us on stage while we danced … well, it was a powerful moment. It was all Kim’s idea. |
TVG: Has your chemistry been a blessing or a curse? Or both?
KZ: Probably both. When they paired us with other love interests, it never worked the same way Josh and Reva resonated with the audience.
RN: I think pairing Reva with another leading man has been more successful than Josh hooking up with another woman. It’s been easier for Kim than for me to create an authentic couple outside of Reva and Josh, that’s for sure.
TVG: Well, you clicked with Michelle Forbes, Beth Ehlers, and Cynthia Watros …
RN: Yeah, but I don’t think the fans invested in those pairings like they did with Reva and Josh. Kim clicked big time with Jordan Clarke’s Billy, Bradley Cole …
KZ: … and Larkin Malloy’s Kyle Sampson.
TVG: [Laughs] You slut!
KZ: I think the few times Robert and I clicked with someone else was because one of us had left the show. That made it easier for the fans to accept new romances for Reva or Josh. What I found hysterical was when Santa Barbara hired me on as A Martinez’s love interest, and GL brought in Marcy Walker to be Robert’s love interest! And neither one of the stunt couplings worked! Go figure … [Laughs]
RN: I think the only love interest that truly worked and resonated with the audience was Josh’s relationship with Harley, but that didn’t last long. Three months after Kim left the show, I split, too! Actually, I suspect that’s why Harley and Josh clicked. [We had to make their relationship more intense] because we didn't have a lot of time to explore their love.
TVG: I agree. But back then, shows used to build and lay down the groundwork and foundation for post-super-couple pairings.
KZ: I agree. Also, before Reva “died,” they had her ask Harley to take care of her family and Josh if anything happened to her. That helped the fans accept Harley and Josh together.
TVG: In hindsight, do you think your departures compromised the Reva and Josh love story in the end?
KZ: No. In fact, us leaving the show provided more stories for the entire canvas. When Robert left the first time, Reva enjoyed a very popular love story with Kyle. Also, our contracts didn’t expire at the same time. And then when I left, it led to Josh and Annie …
RN: If there was any compromise, it was the revolving door of writers. If you look at my first tenure on the show, we worked with just two head writers — Pam Long, and then later, her protégé, Nancy Curlee. Afterwards, there were just too many cooks in the kitchen. They all wanted to make the show their own. And to be honest, some of the writers didn’t understand nor want to understand who Reva and Josh were. And every writer wanted to create his or her own Reva; put their individual stamp on her. Which was futile because Pam Long created Reva and Douglas Marland created Josh. Period.
TVG: Like many viewers, I surprisingly fell in love with Reva and Jeffrey. It’s funny because Kim didn’t share an ounce of chemistry when Bradley Cole played Prince Richard but when he was Jeffrey, you guys exploded.
KZ: Jeffrey was his own man. He accepted Reva for who she was. Also, it helped that Jeffrey didn’t have a solid, successful relationship with another woman on our show. Reva was the only person to defend Jeffrey when he came to town. So they became friends first before becoming lovers. It was the first time Reva ever had a real male friend. It wasn’t all about sex.
|
TVG: Though I’m sure they had their fun under the covers! After the Josh and Cassie fiasco, my love for Reva and Josh died. Which I think is also one of the reasons why I joined Team Jeffrey.
RN: Let me ask you a question, Nelson — do you think that Josh and Cassie would have worked with Laura Wright playing Cassie and not Nicole Forester?
TVG: No. Not even if Meryl Streep played Cassie. You don’t fall in love with your sister’s soulmate. That’s just wrong. Also, Laura Wright’s Cassie would’ve known it was only a matter of time before Josh and Reva re-entered each other’s orbit. They always do. The Cassie I know and love would have been certain that interfering in Reva and Josh’s star-crossed romance would just result in chaos, trouble and really bad karma for Cassie. And apparently, an outstanding lead actress Emmy nomination [Laughs]! Seriously, Cassie was insane to ever think that Reva and Josh were finished with each other — or that she could compete with that kind of epic love. That plot-driven storyline seriously damaged the integrity and history of all three of your characters.
KZ: I think Laura would have played out the sister angst more than Nicole did.
RN: I think Laura and I could have made it work.
TVG: Had Reva died first, then maybe I could have accepted a romance between Josh and Cassie, but even under those circumstances it’d be weird.
KZ: Yeah, I agree, because Josh and Cassie loved and respected each other when Josh and Reva were married. I think the fans would have accepted it under those circumstances. |
 |
TVG: It would have been more of a Beth Ehlers situation. GL jumped the shark when Reva refused to tell her soulmate she was dying of cancer. The clone storyline was more realistic.KZ: That was David Kreizman’s idea. He actually based it on a true story. A woman he knew battled cancer and had chemo without every having told her family.
TVG: What a sick broad. Reva has such a big mouth, I doubt she could have kept her cancer a secret in “real life.”
KZ: Exactly. And she’d want everyone to suffer along with her [laughs]! No, she’d want everyone to party with her until the end.
 |
TVG: The universe always revolved around Reva.
KZ: And like you said, there were other factors that helped pull Reva and Josh farther and farther apart. It wasn’t just Cassie. The cancer ripped them apart. That whole arc was wrong. As if Billy wouldn’t have told his brother about Reva’s cancer?! That never made any sense.
RN: Putting those two stories together — Reva lying about her cancer and Josh and Cassie’s romance — it then became Josh is having sex with Reva’s sister while she’s battling cancer. Josh did know something was up — and did ask her three or four other times. She’d explain it away by saying she was addicted to pot, or falling back in love with Billy. Even though Reva kept lying to Josh, I played it like Josh knew deep down that there was something serious happening to her but he wanted to hear it from her, not from a private investigator. |
TVG: The bigger question is — do you, Kim and Robert, think that Reva and Josh would have reunited at the end of the show after everything that had transpired on screen?KZ: Our fast-forward wasn’t as bad as the rest of the storylines. But you’re right — the journey is the destination and the fast-forward was kind of lazy. The viewers deserved to see Josh and Reva work through their issues before their reconciliation happened.
RN: We always said to each other that there would never be a wedding No. 4!
KZ: I think they would have reunited but they wouldn’t marry again. Reva and Josh would have spent the rest of their lives together — maybe more as friends and companions.
TVG: Reva and Josh as friends … is that possible?
KZ: I think they’d work as friends. I believe Reva and Josh could be more than friends, but they would never tie the knot again.
RN: The fans raked me over the coals once for suggesting that Reva and Josh should become best friends! Actually, at that time, I got ripped apart for a lot of things by the fans [laughs]!
KZ: I’ve always said I could see an older Reva and Josh sitting on their porch step looking out at all their grandkids playing. And not just anywhere — they’d be back at the real Cross Creek, too!
RN: You mean all of Reva’s grandkids … [Laughs]!
KZ: [Laughs] That’s true! All five hundred of them!
RN: I kept waiting for Josh’s mystery child to show up in town!
TVG: Yes, Sonni/Solita, Annie, or Harley could have given birth to an infinitely handsome mini-Josh.
RN: Speaking of Harley, the scene in which Josh and Harley had sex was actually very well-written. It was a good scene. After their night of passion, Harley was so ashamed they had sex that she left before he woke up. After she left, the camera then panned to Josh who was awake and knew she bolted.
TVG: In your mind, what do you think Reva and Josh are up to now? Did that green pickup truck break down in the middle of their road trip to nowhere leading to their umpteenth breakup? Or are they looking for Jeffrey?
RN: Oh, gosh … Maybe Jeffrey has shown up to reclaim Reva.
KZ: I can’t answer that because it’s all in my book.
RN: Reva and Josh are always happy for at least a year before they start fighting again.
KZ: Though I don’t know how Josh would be treating Jeffrey’s son, Colin!
RN: Oh, no … Josh loved that spawn [laughs]. Plus, Josh and Jeffrey were kind of friends.
| KZ: That’s another part of the story that didn’t work for me — Jeffrey not telling Reva he was alive.
RN: See, you and Kim are fans of the show. You guys see Reva and Josh very differently than I do. I didn’t follow the show as loyally as you guys did — despite the fact that I loved GL, and Josh and Reva. I have a different perspective on Reva and Josh than the fans do.
TVG: So who did Bradley Cole piss off to be so sloppily written out of the show with no resolution. I mean, even Krista Tesreau got a happy ending — and she was just a guest star. I heard that Ellen wanted to tie the show in a neat little bow for the fans even if there was a huge tangling thread out there named Jeffrey.
KZ: I have no clue why they didn’t tie up or address Jeffrey’s storyline or relationship with Reva. Conveniently, the flash-forward device left the audience with a few unanswered questions. Like — how did Reva and Josh reunite? What was that journey like? |
 |
TVG: After all that Reva and Josh have been through, it would have been a 10-year process! I’d probably have fast-forwarded Reva and Josh 20 years into the future to find them drinking a few beers, reflecting on their love story from a cathartic standpoint at the real Cross Creek. I’d also keep it a mystery if Reva and Josh were either just friends with benefits, reconciled, married, or a swinging couple! I’d fade out with them laughing their asses off, enveloping each other's hands softly, whispering, “Always.”KZ: Can you imagine us laughing on the Cross Creek porch against the backdrop of the sun setting? That would have been more romantic. Reva and Josh could have reminisced, laughed their butts off, saying, “Remember how stupid we used to be?”
TVG: “Walking through paintings! Returning from the dead twice! Oh, that one time in band camp when you cloned me, Joshua! Good times!”
RN: Or we could have flash-forwarded to them to 90 years old when Reva’s on her deathbed.
 |
TVG: I had actually suggested they kill Reva on the last show but the fans didn’t like that!
KZ: Well, a lot of fans thought that’s what was going to be the endgame. But they decided to kill Alan Spaulding off instead.
TVG: That was beautifully done, I have to say.
KZ: Grant Aleksander and Ron Raines were magnificent in those scenes — and they were written and directed very well. It was a cathartic wrap-up in Alan and Phillip’s contentious father-son relationship. Though I would have been really pissed off if another network picked up the show and Reva was dead [Laughs]!
RN: That doesn’t matter … Reva’s been dead before and she’s arisen from the ashes more than once! |
TVG: Robert, you’ve been called the Paul Newman of soaps. You’re one of our most underrated, subtle actors daytime has given birth to. And let’s not forget one of the most impossibly handsome men to ever grace the small screen. Do you feel like Kim Zimmer’s star power has overshadowed your performances or career — especially at the Daytime Emmy Awards? I thought you should have won the best actor Emmy in 2006.RN: But you know what? I was nominated twice for an Emmy, which was nice. At the end of the day, I lost to two actors I like and respect — Anthony Geary and Peter Bergman, so it was OK.
|
TVG: Are you guys submitting yourselves for 2010 Emmy consideration?
KZ: Oh, God no. I hope Grant does, but knowing him he probably won’t.
RN: I’m not. I’m done. I wouldn’t even know where to begin to assemble a reel. It’s not in my mind … I set aside any Emmy aspirations at least a decade ago.
KZ: [Joking] But you’re a much better actor now [laughs]!
RN: I came to a point in my career where I realized I couldn’t and wouldn’t judge my success in acting by having an Emmy sitting in my living room. The tricky part of this conversation is that I genuinely respect all the actors who have won and earned Emmy Awards [looks lovingly at Kim]. It is a huge honour and accomplishment to be regarded as the most outstanding in your field, but the process is such a train wreck that I can’t get caught up in it for my sanity. When it comes to the Emmys, there’s no rhyme or reason to it. |
|
KZ: The
Daytime Emmy Awards aren’t like the Oscars. The networks don’t support their nominees like the big studios do. The reason why I think Robert has been overlooked so many times isn’t necessarily because he’s my co-star or Josh is destined to live under Reva’s shadow for eternity; I think it’s because Robert is so quiet and shy! You get your Emmy ballot, and there a handful of names actors do not recognize. Nelson and I do because we watch all the shows. When it’s Emmy time, it’s my business to know everyone’s work. I go online and watch all the reels because it fascinates me. Robert doesn’t put himself out there like I do.
RN: I’ve been very happy being quiet. And I love how Kim’s gone out there with guns blazing.
TVG: It sounds like you guys have more in common with Reva and Josh!
RN: That’s true.
KZ: I can see that, But neither of us are as [screwed] up as Reva and Josh, though [laughs]!
RN: [laughs] That’s true, too! Josh gets a lot angrier than I do.
TVG: In real life, your chemistry is palpable, too. How do you explain where your authentic, spellbinding chemistry came from? Even sitting next to you both right now, I can feel it.
KZ: It was the writing, especially during the Pam Long days. Even before I showed up in Springfield, the writers had already established Reva’s history with the Lewis men. My job was done.
RN: I disagree. I don’t think our chemistry is effortless. But it’s not forced or manufactured, either. What is real is when we are suffering right along with Reva and Josh — and trust me, that’s not effortless. But like you said, when you are acting, you have to pursue the truth in each moment and between these characters or it won’t work.
KZ: When they talk about chemistry, Robert and I have always approached our work with one objective — to trust each other. We didn’t have to force our chemistry. Our mutual trust and hard work took care of that. Listen, I had no idea Robert and I shared this “epic” chemistry. I learned about it from the fans. And the magazines.
 |
RN: I also think our chemistry is more evident during Reva and Josh’s ugliest moments. One time, a cameraman remarked to me that he felt uncomfortable watching a huge blowout between Reva and Josh because it felt so real and personal.
TVG: When you guys fought on-screen, there was nothing sexier. It was foreplay for Reva and Josh!
KZ: And that’s the reel I submitted when I won my fourth Emmy. It was the scene in which Reva was finally admitting to Josh that he would never be enough for her, and Josh was asking, “Why am I not enough for you?” And that has always been the crux of their issues and problems. In reality, Josh was too much for Reva because he loved her too much. |
TVG: Reva and Josh were the real deal. Will you guys consider working together again on-screen as different characters?KZ: Sure! We’d definitely work together again. We already do on stage, but as for other mediums, why not?
RN: I think it’s easier to live down the Reva and Josh legacy if we worked together in theatre.
TVG: Were you shocked that P&G/TeleNext cancelled World Turns so soon after it axed GL?
KZ: No, not at all.
RN: I knew the day we were cancelled, that they would be cancelled as well. There was no question in my mind.
KZ: I didn’t think it would happen that soon. And I’ll tell you why. While we were filming out in Peapack, New Jersey, World Turns was doing work on that house we shot in. They were installing an editing facility, which made me think World Turns was moving in.
TVG: Finally, would you guys do another soap?
RN: It’s not on my radar. This is the time for me to expand and do other things. That’s where my head is. Also, it’s no secret that soaps are struggling so there is no guarantee that you’ll have a job in six months.
KZ: I see a lot of great roles for Robert on breakdown lists for movies and primetime TV. I think if Robert lived in L.A., he’d be working all the time. For me, as I’ve told you before, I’ll take a short-term soap role if it’s right. That’s why I turned down Y&R. It was only intended to be a six-day role. My agent told me, “Don’t waste your Y&R chit for a [throwaway] character.” But Katherine’s faux daughter would have been a very fun character! She was trailer park trash and a drunk! [Joking] My specialty! [Seriously] It could have worked but I wanted the role to last a little longer than six days! I just want to act. I want to play different roles. I don’t want to keep playing Reva for the rest of my life. But right now, I’m focused on writing my book. Hopefully, it will be released by the end of the year.
TVG: The Scarlet Years revisited! Can’t wait …
Want to dish the soaps with Nelson Branco? Join The Suds Report discussion Facebook group today.
Nelson Branco is a Toronto freelance entertainment journalist, who regularly contributes to Hello! Canada, The National Post, The Los Angeles Times' theenvelope.com, TV Guide USA, tvguide.com, Inside Entertainment, OUT, and fab magazine, along with spearheading the soap coverage for TVGuide.ca's popular daytime TV hub. After graduating from Ryerson University in 1997, he moved from Toronto to New York in 1998 to take on the roles as senior news editor at Soap Opera Update. Branco first freelanced for Soap Opera Weekly as an intern in 1994, and after leaving Soap Update to help create and launch Bauer Publishing's In Touch Weekly in 2003, Branco continued to freelance occasionally for its sister publication, Soaps In Depth. Most recently, he helped create and launch Canada's first celebrity magazine, Weekly Scoop in 2005 as its news and entertainment director. Branco is also a contributor to a new TV show titled Planet Soap to air in Canada and America.
